Curse

RTSFirebat · Aug 22, 2005, 01:59 PM // 13:59

This has happed to me loads of times.

For those who don't know or if the title is confusing, basically when your running away from a warrior or whoever using a melee weapon, who is able to then hit you even if you nowhere near them.

Maybe this can be called lag, but my 2Mbit connection with 150-300ping on the us servers begs to differ.

Its annoying when you making a get away only to be killed or even more annoying knocked down by a hammer when you not even next to the other player.

I think there some confusion over what this game considers to be 'melee' weapons.

Silmor · Aug 22, 2005, 02:08 PM // 14:08

They initiate the attack when they're adjacent to you. The attack animation starts, you run away, thinking you're well away and safe after half a second, the attack animation ends, you get damaged, you run to forums to complain about it.

Attacks need to work this way. If they wouldn't, warriors wouldn't stand a chance to ever hit a moving target, regardless of speed buffs, because they need to stand still to attack.

Nexus Icon · Aug 22, 2005, 02:14 PM // 14:14

The attacks you see are just graphical representations of the underlying rule system.
I know this sounds odd, but characters are not actually hitting eachother, rather an animation plays to represent this. These animations are not 100% accurate.
Just be thankful that the animations in GW are better and feel chunkier than the ones in NWN.

Phades · Aug 22, 2005, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmor

They initiate the attack when they're adjacent to you. The attack animation starts, you run away, thinking you're well away and safe after half a second, the attack animation ends, you get damaged, you run to forums to complain about it.

Attacks need to work this way. If they wouldn't, warriors wouldn't stand a chance to ever hit a moving target, regardless of speed buffs, because they need to stand still to attack.

Of course ive tried to use an attack skill while the initial animation was in motion and the seperation occured and the attack never happened.

Ive also had the problem where the attack attempts to follow the pathing of the target and pulls the character into solid objects.

What really needs to happen is that melee attacks should not need to have to stop moving in order for the attack to occur. That would solve a few of the issues in general.

Sarus · Aug 22, 2005, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Quote:

What really needs to happen is that melee attacks should not need to have to stop moving in order for the attack to occur. That would solve a few of the issues in general.

From a monks perspective that would be horrible. Can you imagine a hammer warrior that can knocklock/build adrenaline on you while you're running? That would suck.

Diomedes · Aug 22, 2005, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Quote:

From a monks perspective that would be horrible. Can you imagine a hammer warrior that can knocklock/build adrenaline on you while you're running? That would suck.

I agree, unless you can cast while running, I don't think you should be able to attack while running.

As it stands, running is already usually a weaker position for the victim than the pursuer. The pursuer can usually snare/knockdown/sprint/etc since he/she knows ahead of time that they'll probably have to do some running. The victim on the other hand probably doesn't have much to do when they start running. In this case, running is about the same as casting blackout. The target can't do anything and the caster can only do something every now and then. I don't see why more of an advantage should be given to the chaser.

Please feel free to disagree, I haven't thought about the matter much and would love to learn a bit more.

-Diomedes

RTSFirebat · Aug 22, 2005, 03:13 PM // 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmor

They initiate the attack when they're adjacent to you. The attack animation starts, you run away, thinking you're well away and safe after half a second, the attack animation ends, you get damaged, you run to forums to complain about it.

I'm not complaining, I'm starting a dicussion about somethings that clearly odd.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmor

They initiate the attack when they're adjacent to you. The attack animation starts, you run away, thinking you're well away and safe after half a second, the attack animation ends, you get damaged, you run to forums to complain about it.

Attacks need to work this way. If they wouldn't, warriors wouldn't stand a chance to ever hit a moving target, regardless of speed buffs, because they need to stand still to attack.

I think it odd an animation can hit me when I 10 meters or so already away from them, even if the animation has started or not, it seems stupid.

It's call melee for a reason

Algren Cole · Aug 22, 2005, 03:14 PM // 15:14

uhm..it may be trivial but a 150-300 ping is absolutely awful.

RTSFirebat · Aug 22, 2005, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

uhm..it may be trivial but a 150-300 ping is absolutely awful.

Not really, this game unlike some others runs well no matter the ping. I never have people teleporting or screen freezing. The games handles lag (ping) fairly well. 700+ ping could be defined as awful.

Forboding Angel · Aug 22, 2005, 04:43 PM // 16:43

dude a 200 ping is absolutely horrible whether this game handles it well or not. It's still bad.

Racthoh · Aug 22, 2005, 05:26 PM // 17:26

If my understanding is correct, you want it so that in order for an attack to hit, you have to be right next to the person.

As someone who has played extensively as a warrior, and done PvP against runners, I would quit this game if that happened. I attack, you take a slight step backwards and now my attack misses. The grief that slow attacking hammer warriors would have. Impossible to cripple a fleeing enemy with Hamstring because you're constantly on the move.

If anything I'm trying to figure out why I can't attack and run at the same time.

Zubrowka · Aug 22, 2005, 05:30 PM // 17:30

This "telekinetic" effect is due to the way most online games handle motion. For a game to remain responsive, it has to show your movement as soon as you press the button, before your new position is sent and updated in the central scoring system. Likewise, the movement of enemies are predicted, then reconciled with their actual positions later. If you have play a FPS you've probably had the "headshot 6 feets 'round a corner" experience before.

The effect can be masked with some clever animations though. When the game engine sees a gap between the visual representations of the attacker and victim, it can show the former making a leaping attack. After the leap, what you see on the screen wouldn't quite match reality--the attacker has moved forward before he actually did. But if he's giving chase, he'll likely end up there in the near future anyway.

Silmor · Aug 22, 2005, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

I think it odd an animation can hit me when I 10 meters or so already away from them, even if the animation has started or not, it seems stupid.

It's call melee for a reason

The point is that the attack is considered 'valid' from the point where the attacker can and does attack, i.e. while standing adjacent to you. Adjacent seems to be just short of one person space between you and the attacker, so there's a small gap possible already (weapon length? not important), but especially with the slow attacking animation for hammers, the actual hit is going to land when the running target is quite a distance away already - that's just aesthetics, not a bug or anything.

Just because the target ran away after the attacker got into melee distance to land an attack doesn't mean the attack is any less valid, just that because we can't have instant-damage due to the graphical shell GW is in, you get a delay from the animation which in the end doesn't change.

Aside that, there's also plenty of room for small desynchs as Zubrowka describes that can add to the impression of being hit from too far away, but in the sense of fairness, this issue should work out to be relatively innocent.

AviX · Aug 23, 2005, 05:49 PM // 17:49

okay..than explain this balthazars aura to me

btw..droped 100 gold next to me when he died

Phades · Aug 23, 2005, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarus

From a monks perspective that would be horrible. Can you imagine a hammer warrior that can knocklock/build adrenaline on you while you're running? That would suck.

I can respect that, but there are run buffs that are faster and last longer (battle rage/rush excluded for duration purposes) than sprint or charge. Most of these are largely unused outside of the arenas. A change like this would cause people to have other considerations when going into battle. Also things like ward against foes would be even more popular as a result and possibly muddy terrain.

Having range and speed advantage over another character is a win by default situation that should never happen. Refer to lineage 2 archers, so casting on the run would be a very bad idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AviX

okay..than explain this balthazars aura to me

btw..droped 100 gold next to me when he died

That is a server<->client prediction error. To those that say they never experience lag, warping, or other net issues is kinda strange because this is the type of wtf i encountered within the game. Its worse when you have henchmen following the target and you are manually steering towards it, but then use the attack key (for melee) and do a 180 turn to intercept something that isnt there.